Hydrogen Movements Challenges and Solutions Podcast

by , , , | Aug 9, 2022 | Measurement Instrumentation, Sustainability

Jim Cahill

Chief Blogger, Social Marketing Leader

HydrogenNowCast: Hydrogen measurement and flow with EmersonThe HydrogenNowCast, part of the Colorado Hydrogen Network is “…devoted to encouraging the deployment of Fuel Cell EV’s, hydrogen fueling and hydrogen infrastructure throughout the world. Our intent is to encourage and motivate others to take charge, to help deploy hydrogen as a means to decarbonize the transportation and energy sectors, and accelerate the movement to stop climate change.”

In the podcast, Hydrogen measurement and flow with Emerson, Emerson’s Don Fregelette, Laura Chemler, and Andrew Sgro join host Brian DeBruine to discuss some of the challenges and solutions in handling hydrogen across its supply chain from production through distribution. Special thanks to the Colorado Hydrogen Network for permission to rehost and share this podcast.

Listen to the podcast and visit the Accelerating the Transition to a Hydrogen Future section on Emerson.com for more of the technologies and solutions to drive your sustainability and decarbonization initiatives forward.

Transcript

Brian: Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 57 of the “HydrogenNowCast” for July 22nd, 2022. The “HydrogenNowCast” is sponsored by New Day Hydrogen, who’s helping fleet owners meet their zero-emission vehicle needs. If you’re with a fleet or transit operator and your fleet is wondering how to convert to zero-emission vehicles but still meet your operational needs, New Day Hydrogen can give you the option of fuel cell vehicles by providing public hydrogen fuel stations near you, and showing you the available fuel cell trucks, vans, and buses. To find out more information about both vehicles and fueling, visit the newdayhydrogen.com website, where you can also submit requests on the contact page.

Well, the podcast today is the first episode of a two-part interview with the company Emerson. In this episode, we’re gonna focus on measuring hydrogen. So, to tell us about that, as well as Emerson’s products and services around hydrogen, we have three guests. And our first guest is Don Fregelette, who’s Emerson’s VP of Chemical Industry Marketing. Don, welcome to the show.

Don: Thank you, Brian. It’s a pleasure to be here. I’m excited to talk about this opportunity and everything that’s going on in hydrogen.

Brian: Great. Thanks, Don. Well, our second guest is Laura Chemler, who’s the Emerson Industry Manager of Sustainability and Emerging Market Solutions. Laura, welcome to the show.

Laura: Hi, excited to be here.

Brian: Well, thanks, Laura. Great to have you with us. And last but not least is Andrew Sgro, who’s the Emerson Director of Product Marketing. Andrew, welcome to the show.

Andrew: Yeah. I appreciate that. Thanks for having us.

Brian: Yeah. Great. Well, we really appreciate the time that all three of you have taken to do this. So, thank you so much. You know, Emerson is a pretty large company with quite a diverse number of products and services, and also quite a few locations around the world. Laura, why don’t we start with you giving the listeners an overview of Emerson the company?

Laura: Emerson is a global technology and software company providing innovative solutions for our customers in industrial, commercial, and residential markets. Our automation solutions business, and specifically, the measurement solution business that we’re a part of helps manufacturers maximize production and protect employees and the environment while optimizing energy and operation costs all through data collection and data analysis. In essence, we design and manufacture the devices that give you insights into your process flows, and help you maintain data to better manage your facility. We have experience in chemical, oil and gas, refining, pharmaceuticals, food and beverage, metals and mining, pulp and paper, and more. So, there’s a good chance we’ll be able to help you regardless of what industry you’re in, including hydrogen. I mentioned that Emerson is a global company, but we’re local too. Most of us on this call are from Boulder, Colorado, and I’m from Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Brian: All right. Great. Well, thanks, Laura. I know you’ve got quite a few products and things. Are they mainly focused around consumer and commercial products, I mean, you don’t really get into military things, do you?

Laura: No. They’re mainly gonna be things like pressure devices, flow, giving you insights to what’s happening in your pipes, in your system, and if something’s coming out of your pipes, we can help you identify that. We can tell you the flow rates, the temperatures, pressures, all the data that you need to better control and optimize your process flow so you’re not having excess waste, rework, using excess raw materials in your process, and we’re making sure that you can optimize and have good process control.

Brian: Okay. Great. Well, that really helps kind of give us and the listeners, I think, an idea of what these products are really centered around. So, well, you know, the hydrogen ecosystem is pretty vast, I mean, it runs the gamut from generation, to transport, to use, and, you know, the handling of hydrogen in each of these three functions, things like measurement, and like you said, flow control, detection and containment, and other tasks need to be performed. So, let’s talk a little bit about how Emerson fits into this ecosystem, and some of the products, and especially the expertise that Emerson brings to bear. And, maybe, Don, do you wanna start with that? Get a little technical here, and Andrew, you’d like to follow up maybe?

Don: Yeah. Absolutely. So, I think, you know, maybe first thing to note for everyone here, and I think most of, you know, hydrogen isn’t new, right? It’s really the fact that all of this sustainability and people are looking for greener energy is really driving all of the interest and all of the activity around it today. And so from an Emerson perspective, we’ve been engaged with this for years. In fact, you look at some of our brands, you know, Micro Motion, which we’ll talk about later, is close to 50 years. You’ve got Rosemount, they have the pressure and temperature and level stuff, they’ve been 60 years. Fisher with valves and regulators, they’ve been over 100 years. And then look at our control systems and our software business, as we’ve just acquired AspenTech. We’ve really been in business for 40 to 50 years on that end. So, quite a bit of experience.

And, you know, if you go back to the production side and you just think about the value chain, I mean, we’re involved in the front end in producing, so you look at the traditional way. So, you take a hydrocarbon, and you reform it, and it gives you hydrogen. You know, we’ve been involved with electrolysis, I mean, the early days on the alkaline side. And, you know, as we’ve moved forward now to some of the newer technologies like proton exchange and anion exchange, you go through, and then you look at the transportation of it, whether pipelines, trucks, that type of stuff, and then continue on to the actual usage. So, you think about power plants and how they’re starting to use hydrogen, you look at things like the actual usage of hydrogen in an industry. So, you know, it’s used for ammonia. It’s used in the refining industry, steel, all of those things. And then finally, what I think a lot of your listeners are used to, which is the actual transportation and dispensing of hydrogen, either into fuel cells, or into vehicles, or things like that.

If you think about, you know, our solutions and what we do as a company, I mean, there’s some really good examples. So, if you look at the production of it, so let’s take the reforming. So, reforming is done in a furnace and as such, combustion is a big issue. So one of the things that we would do is we might take a Coriolis meter for the natural gas, a differential pressure transmitter that has kind of a conditioning orifice plate for the air measurement, and then on the backend, you’ll have an oxygen analyzer. All this is put into a control system where we actually can modify the ratio and optimize that so that when you look at the production of energy, it’s optimized. So you get a better energy intensity number, but also, you’re reducing your carbon. So, we’ll take it as far as that, but if you look then at some of the other things that we do… Analyzers, so if you look at an electrolyzer today, you’ve got pH in conductivity is really critical because you want your water to be as pure as possible. Because if you have any contamination, if it gets on the electrodes, what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna damage those electrodes.

We get involved with things like leak detection, so we have flow and pressure, we have corrosion measurement, and software that ensures that you have the integrity of that pipeline and that it’s safe. We have things, you know, if you look at the hydrogen, and you look at this, there’s a lot of rotating equipment. A lot of compressors, heat exchangers, pumps, blowers, chillers, I mean, all these things, which you really need to look at the reliability. So combined with our measurement equipment like pressure, and temperature, and flow, into our software with AspenTech and our systems group, I mean, we can really determine the reliability of those products, be more proactive, and more predictive on the maintenance, and really make sure that those facilities or those operations are more reliable. Tank, you know, so we do tank safety and level. We have systems that we put together to do all the loading and unloading. If you look on trucks, or on rail, and moving hydrogen, or even in the pipelines in full-blown metrology or custody transfer system, so the Cash Register that actually determines the amount of hydrogen that’s switching hands.

And then other parts, I mean, you got ASCO. So, ASCO is well-known in the dispensing business for their solenoid valves for the fuel, as well as our TESCOM regulators, which are both used in dispensers, but also for determining the measurement of fuel going into the fuel cells and so forth. And then obviously, simple things like just analyzers that can tell you the quality of the hydrogen, or to make sure there’s no contamination in that hydrogen as it moves forward, just a whole bunch of safety devices. And whether it’s safety devices around flame and gas. So, knowing how much hydrogen is in a line or being able to detect hydrogen flames, there’s just a lot of things that we do in this entire value chain to really help the customers. And we’ve been doing this for a long time. And so, whether it’s today ticking and trying to take gray hydrogen, and capture that carbon, make it, and then transport it in a supercritical phase, or even going back to something as simple as working with sub -300-degree hydrogen, and we have just a tremendous amount of experience over the years in this industry.

Brian: Wow. Thanks, Don. My head is spinning. Maybe just to unpack a little bit about that, of what you said there, so you mentioned a number of different companies like Rosemount, and Fisher, and AspenTech, those are all in the family of Emerson, right?

Don: That’s correct. I mean, in Emerson we actually have two parts of the business, and we’re all part of the automation side. I mean, there’s a commercial side, and you’ll see things like InSinkErator, so your garbage disposal, right? I mean, that’s actually an Emerson or RIDGID tools. But for us, I mean, we really are all part of the automation and process control side of the business. And so all those businesses, TESCOM, I mentioned ASCO, Rosemount, Micro Motion, I mean, just a ton of brand names that are really associated with the company.

Brian: Wow. Very impressive. Thanks. Well, some of the other things you went through, you mentioned, like, Coriolis meter, and maybe we’ll call on Andrew to talk about some of these things. I think of Coriolis, I think of the water going down the drain, right? The way that spins, and you mentioned metrology and things like supercritical. So, Andrew, I mean, maybe you want to start helping us understand things about flow, and so on and so forth, and maybe explain some of these terms, like, you know, how Coriolis effect is used in measuring flow and things like that.

Andrew: Yeah. I think I can get into a little more detail there, you know. Don gave a great overview of sort of the overall business for Emerson, and how we’re looking at hydrogen across all those technologies. The part of the business I work in is specifically focused on flow, and even more so is design and development of Coriolis flow meters. And, you know, Coriolis meters are the ideal technology really, as we look at all these opportunities with hydrogen. For those that aren’t aware, you know, it’s a direct mass flow measurement, and so you’re able to go out and access mass balance measurements, or density measurements, pretty advanced diagnostics to look at meter health, and capability. And then just the fact that Coriolis meters are not affected by temperature and pressure conditions, like lab volumetric technology out there, really set it up well to be, you know, very super on measurement for hydrogen across that value chain. And so whether it’s all the way down to these liquid hydrogen stream cryogenic temperatures like Don mentioned, or, you know, all the way up to very high pressures where we’re talking about 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 psi type of measurements.

And so then flow specifically really is a critical measurement, you know, no matter where you are in that hydrogen value chain. Somebody explained it to me once is, for all of these measurements, you know, what our customers really need is to know what it is and how much of it it is, and how much there is, and so, yeah. The “what it is” comes from the analytical side of our business, and that’s some of what Don spoke to. How much it is, is that flow measurement, and so when we look at flow, it’s, you know, across production, whether it’s the air going into the turbine cooling like Don mentioned, you have the water feed and electrolysis, then you move into transportation. And, you know, whether you’re in a liquid state for hydrogen transportation, or we’re looking at gas pipelines and these hydrogen-enriched natural gas pipelines where we’re trying to move hydrogen from one location to another, and then all the way to that end use, and dispensing, and refueling.

We’ve got solutions that we are in development, and that we’ve been working with our customers for years on across that value chain from start to finish. It’s interesting to me because form, fit, and function are really very familiar, and most of…even though hydrogen seems like a newer interest that’s really starting to spool up in the last few years, a lot of the applications are really pretty mature applications for something like natural gas. The difference is that with hydrogen, there’s certainly unique measurement challenges, so as we look at pure or even the hydrogen-enriched natural gas lines, that escalates your hazardous area approval, so now you have to start thinking about, “Okay, now I’m in gas group B, what does that mean for my installation?” If you’re looking at custody transfer we talk about how custody transfer and weights and measures, requirements, and certifications here in the U.S., or over in Europe, have special regulations built up around hydrogen specifically. And then even just the unique fluid properties of hydrogen, so we look at the very high velocity of sound or the compressibility of hydrogen as a gas. And all of this needs to be considered when we’re trying to size the meter or help customers select what is the right product for that application that they’re targeting.

Brian: Yeah. Thanks, Andrew. And, you know, to that point, I think possibly a lot of our listeners are thinking, you know, if you need a meter, or you need a valve or something, you just go to a catalog and order it, but it seems like this is pretty technical. And I know in the avionics business that I was used to, you didn’t just go buy a product, you actually talked to the company, they would help you with the design and specifying it. So, maybe, Don, we should go back to you, what are some of the important questions users need to ask to ensure that they’re specifying the right product, and how does Emerson really help them do that?

Don: Well, I mean, it’s interesting because when you look at it, yeah, hydrogen can be challenging, right? I mean, like, just look at, and Andrew mentioned a couple of things with, you know, the low density, the high speed of sound and all those things. But really, when we look at it, there’s three primary questions I think people need to think about. Operating pressure, operating temperature, and the concentration of hydrogen are probably the three top ones. And then what is the flow so that we get an idea of the actual rate that the product is moving? And, you know, some of these are because hydrogen is this unique product, right? A lot of people think it has a very strong bond, but it has a really weak bond.

So, part of the reason you’re asking these things around pressure and temperature is if at high pressures, and high temperatures, and in the presence of iron, it’ll actually break down to its ionic state. And so it gets really small. And so it gets into the lattice structure of these metals, in certain metals, and so what ends up happening is you end up with some level or some type of corrosion. And there’s a number of different ways that happens. But I think the critical thing is, you know, knowing what the pressure and temperature is, you can pick the right types of materials. So for instance, I mean, at higher temperatures and pressures, I mean, you wanna stay away from things like carbon steel and Monel, ceramics, titanium. So, some of the harder steels, you wanna move towards more of the things like 3/16 stainless, or platinum, or even gold plating. And so, by knowing these things, what we as a supplier can do is really recommend what is the right material and have the right information to determine what we need to do there.

You know, and Andrew can talk a little bit more about flow, but if you look at the whole business, I mean, you know, flow is critical because, you know, as he said, you got this high speed of sound, and so what ends up happening is it can be very noisy, so that can affect your valve. So, you know, I mean, we do things like have special trim, the case of Fisher it’s called the Whisper Trim. And it’s a cage and actually fits in the valve, and it reduces the noise that you can get as the hydrogen goes through this. Boy, I mean, you look at it, just think about it, hydrogen is basically colorless, odorless, highly explosive, and is an asphyxiate. It is dangerous. And so recognizing, you know, that you need to really…whether it’s your valves, or your regulators, or other equipment, you’ve gotta minimize the amount of emissions. And so, you’ve gotta look at and recognize, you know, what kind of packing, or what kind of seal is on those regulators or valves to really ensure that you’re minimizing the emission. So there’s just a lot of things that you gotta take into effect that, you know, one, look at the materials of construction, two, take into account the fact that you really do not want leakage of any kind of hydrogen because of the level of concern and regulations around safety that exist out there. You know, and there’s a lot to guide people, but those are really probably the top things that you need to think about as you’re looking at this.

Brian: Well, thanks, Don. And I’m glad you mentioned emissions because a lot of the environmentalists are concerned that hydrogen can be a greenhouse gas. So, they’re kind of antihydrogen because they’re worried about it being a greenhouse gas, but because of the safety issues as well as just loss of your valuable material, I really think that hydrogen leaks are gonna be a very minor concern in the future. Andrew, did you wanna add anything to that?

Andrew: Yeah. You know, I thought I could give maybe a couple of specific examples. Don mentioned, you know, all the considerations here as you’re looking at hydrogen opportunities, and that’s part of where we’re trying to develop our own education and really kind of partner with our customers and with the industry to figure out, “How do we help guide users to that correct product?” like Don was mentioning. A couple examples here would be when we look at maybe the gas pipelines, and we’re seeing a lot of these opportunities where companies are starting to leverage the infrastructure of natural gas pipelines, but inject hydrogen to help with the emissions questions we were just discussing, and at the same time maintain the energy content and the BTU level.

And so the question is then, “Okay. How do I determine what is the right size meter to put in this application?” And especially, when we start mixing in something like hydrogen with that low density, that high velocity of sound, it makes that sizing and selection process a little bit more complicated. And so, in that case, one of the ways we’ve been trying to simplify the discussion, and the process, and open that up to a broader audience is to really focus in on Mach number there, and so we look at what is the velocity through the pipeline, through the meter, and have some general rule of thumb, what is sort of a target Mach number and a maximum Mach number for how fast you really wanna be flowing through that meter? If you exceed about one-third Mach…and Mach again is that percentage of a speed of sound based on the gas going through there. If you get too high, you start to get too much noise in the process, and you really aren’t gonna get a reliable or clean measurement there. And so, having this guideline of trying to limit down to about 0.2, 0.3 Mach is our general starting point, is our recommendation as we’re looking at these pipeline measurements.

Alternatively, we look at dispensing as an example. And dispensing becomes, again, a difficult challenge as we’re trying to figure out what is the right size meter to put in here to be able to measure flow. I think we’ll get a lot more into dispensing in the next episode, but it’s got a really unique challenge because it’s not a stable flow rate. If we had a fixed flow rate pressure and temperature, that’s generally a pretty easy measurement, but what we’re seeing is people are building up these dispensing units, is that that flow rate changes. You hook up to your truck, your car, it starts to ramp up, and it’s constantly increasing flow and pressure through this three-minute fill cycle. And because of that, it makes the measurement itself significantly more challenging. And yeah, at the maximum condition, this is all happening at as high as 350 bar, maybe 700 bar, depending on the system. So again, really trying to figure out, “How do we help simplify that guidance and guide customers to that correct product and the right meter for the application?”

As I mentioned before, it’s something that we’ve been working on in different applications that weren’t hydrogen for many years now. And actually what we’re seeing is a lot of our existing customers who have compressed natural gas stations or the CNG dispensing units trying to determine for themselves, “How do they evolve their own infrastructure and convert some of their business over to be able to adapt and have access to this hydrogen market?” And so with that, it’s us as a supplier and a partner doing the same thing, and trying to figure out, “How do we adapt our tools and our processes to help our customers make that conversion as well?”

Brian: Okay. Thanks, Andrew. Well, there’s no question that hydrogen is a tricky substance to handle, and it’s good to know that Emerson has really got this well in hand, and has kinda worked it all out, and can help people, you know, solve their problems. All right. Well, Laura, let’s turn back to you. I know one of your responsibilities is sustainability, and you mentioned earlier that Emerson really helps manufacturers optimize their production to not only have a well-running business but also to protect the planet. So, how does all of this play into Emerson’s sustainability initiative?

Laura: Great question. Because we can’t just talk about sustainability and not look at our own sustainability and what are we doing to walk the walk, so to speak, instead of just talk the talk. And Emerson has a framework we use when we talk about sustainability. We call it the greening of, greening by, and greening with. The greening of means we’re looking internally at how to improve our own Scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions. And what we’re doing to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and our carbon footprint. Greening by is where we’re helping our customers achieve their own sustainability goals through emissions reductions, metering and energy efficiency projects, and everything from food and beverage to chemical, to hydrogen. In growing markets like hydrogen, the sky is really the limit when it comes to what manufacturers are capable of. Greening with is where we’re looking at how we can partner with others to increase collaboration, support, sustainability-related policies, and drive innovation that helps the world become more sustainable together.

Brian: Great. Thanks, Laura. I like that. Greening of, greening by, and greening with. Maybe we should look at some examples. Some companies really come under criticism today because they talk about sustainability, but not necessarily really having a plan, or tracking, and reporting their progress. Laura, why don’t you give us a few examples of steps that Emerson is taking to reduce internal emissions, and then next, how you’re helping customers to help take steps to achieve their own sustainability goals, and maybe lastly, if there’s any way that Emerson’s working with governments and agencies on policies that can help improve sustainability,

Laura: I would love to. So, this year we just renewed our climate ambition from our 2018 climate goals, and after an in-depth analysis, we established a target to reach net zero greenhouse gas emissions across all scopes, Scope 1, 2, and 3 by 2045, from our 2021 baseline. And we have a midpoint goal in there at 2030 to reach net zero Scope 1 and 2 with a 25% reduction in our Scope 3 emissions. And this is just really exciting because we partnered with a science-based target initiative to have this net zero standard, and they’re the world’s leading organization in driving the adoption of science-based targets. And we’re using the latest climate science to set those goals, and align with what the science is really saying is needed. And that just came out this June, you can go to emerson.com and read more, there’s a great report on it. But that’s how we’re trying to set our own goals for ourselves.

And in order to reach these goals, we’re looking at internal energy reduction projects and being smarter about the energy we’re consuming. We’re being smarter about the energy we’re producing, and seeing how we can be better at our own production and operations, and how we’re running our facilities. We’re looking at sourcing 100% renewable energy through our electrical providers or doing on-site installations ourselves with solar panels or wind turbines. And there’s a lot of activity happening through Energy Treasure Hunts, Sustainability Champions, and Green Teams, where we’re organizing our own employees to help Emerson come up with sustainability solutions.

And if you’re not already aware, the Department of Energy and the EPA have partnered to create ENERGY STAR challenge and Energy Treasure Hunts that are available to everyone. And these tools and guides are really useful to facilities, any type of facility located anywhere in the world. So, you don’t have to be in the U.S., in order to use these tools. And if you’re looking to evaluate your energy usage and identify really low-hanging fruit improvement opportunities, they’re a great place to start. But that’s only our facilities. We also have to look at our products, and we’re using lifecycle assessments to evaluate how we’re designing our products, building our products, sourcing our products, and Andrew, I know you’re a little bit closer with that, Coriolis.

Andrew: Yeah. Actually, I had the opportunity to be part of one of the lifecycle assessments that we completed last year on our Coriolis meter. Really, the first lifecycle assessment that we’d ever done on the Coriolis meter. And just for clarity, I guess, so that’s a cradle-to-grave type of assessment where we’re looking at everything from, what are those raw material inputs, and where are the foundries that metal is coming from, to the manufacturing processes where we weld and brace all the components together, the calibration, how much water is running through the system? Is it reused? Is it heated? All the way to packaging, shipping, transport. Is it going on a plane, a bus, a truck, or a boat? And then even the lifecycle.

And so with Coriolis meters, often they’re in the field, they run 10, 20, maybe even 30 years before being decommissioned. And so all that feeds into that lifecycle assessment in the report. And when we worked our way through this, it really helped inform our new product development, as well as many other aspects of the business as we’re continuing to learn and grow through this pretty typical, or measure, offset, and reduce type of mindset. And one example would be that hydrogen dispensing meter I mentioned briefly earlier. And so what we learned from the lifecycle assessment, actually helped us reevaluate the design, and we ended up with a product that had less overall components, required less raw material, reduced the energy inputs in manufacturing and the water usage through that process of developing and manufacturing those sensors.

Another example would be our packaging. Laura had mentioned it I think briefly but I’ll be the first to admit that if you looked at any of our packaging several years ago, it wasn’t a great impression from a sustainability perspective. We used lock hardboard and wood, you open it up, and we were still using the expanded foam, and a lot of plastics, because it just wasn’t an area of focus 5, 10, 15 years ago. Right now, we’re actually working through a handful of pilots to figure out, “How do we get to a mono-material type of packaging that just makes recycling really easy for our customers but still meets all of our quality and reliability needs for transportation?”

Brian: Okay. Thanks, Andrew. And, Laura, go ahead if you had some other clients.

Laura: That’s just what Emerson’s doing. And we can take a lot of what we’re learning here and help our customers do the same thing. And we’ve talked a lot about instrumentation, and measurement, and different devices that you can install, and the information it gives you. And that information is what helps our customers reach their sustainability goals because it provides them more data. And the more data you have, the more you know about what’s happening, and you can identify if there’s something unexpected happening in your process, or maybe you haven’t looked at the efficiency of your heat exchangers, or furnaces in a sustainability lens, you’ve only looked at it from a cost efficiency lens before. And so that’s where we’re helping our customers look at the issues that they’re experiencing in a slightly different lens with extra expertise to help them identify how they can go above and beyond the solutions that they’ve thought of before to reach those sustainability goals and identify how they can reduce their energy efficiency even more than they have before, and improve their process efficiency, reduce rework, and the waste that they have to end up creating. And how can they reuse that waste or identify different ways of making their process even better?

Brian: Well said. Well, that’s the old adage, if you can’t measure something, if you don’t measure something, you certainly can’t change it, so.

Laura: Exactly.

Brian: Well, as we wind this down, I wanna thank you all again for your time to be on the podcast today, but I’d like to give you each a chance if there’s any other things you’d like to mention or some ideas that have come up as we’re talking, and Don, should we start with you, and then Andrew, and then Laura if you’ve got any last thoughts?

Don: Yeah. Like I said earlier, I think in general, hydrogen’s been around for a long time, we all kinda repeated it. There is a lot of experience and I think you, and your listeners recognize that, but right now it’s just the whole industry is exploding with innovation. And whether it’s trying to make greener hydrogen or blue hydrogen out of gray, or whether it’s all the way down to all these new technologies such as the small little kits or trailers with full electrolyzers in them to have on local sites to help with the production of hydrogen for something as simple as a fertilizer, right? And there’s just a lot of unique innovations going on in the industry today, and they all really do require some level of measurement and automation, and for us, I mean, we just have a tremendous amount of experience in that area that are really able to help you in your needs.

Andrew: Yeah. And I’ll just add to what Don said there. Even though hydrogen’s been around forever, I mean, we’re seeing this really exciting ramp in investments, and whether it’s private or government initiatives, you can’t look in the news today without seeing some sort of article on whether it’s California, or Japan, or Korea, or in Europe, for commitments to invest in hydrogen, and in this industry. So, our interest is really to ensure that we’re staying connected and engaged with all these companies and these initiatives to make sure that we’re educating ourselves and that we’re up to speed on how the industry is changing. And to Don’s point, I think there’s still a lot outstanding questions out there too. Do you produce hydrogen in these very centralized facilities the way we see refineries today? Or do you distribute it as natural gas and produce hydrogen sort of locally in smaller distribution centers? And as we look at dispensing, a lot of questions still around, what’s the pressure target? What’s the timeframe for what an acceptable fill cycle is? And so, our goal is just to always be on the frontlines of that discussion, and really are just excited to continue to be engaged with folks like yourself and groups like this to make sure that we’re constantly getting input on where do we head next to help support that.

Laura: If you’d like to learn more about Emerson’s net zero goals, check out our ESG Report on emerson.com. It goes into a lot of detail about what are we doing internally with all our environmental goals along with a lot more on our social and governance too.

Brian: Okay. Thanks, Laura. Well, listeners, we’ve been talking with Don Fregelette, and Andrew Sgro, and Laura Chemler, today from Emerson. Laura, what’s the best way for folks to try to contact either you, or Andrew, or Don, is it through LinkedIn, or what’s the best way?

Laura: You can do LinkedIn or email. Emerson makes our emails very easy. It’s just firstname.lastname@emerson.com. So, either of those would be perfectly fine.

Brian: Okay. All right. And I’ll put that in the show notes, as well as, of course, the spelling of everybody’s last name, just to make that easy. Well, all right. Thank you, all three of you, for your time to be with us today. And listeners, you can look forward to hearing more about Emerson, in a follow-up podcast where Andrew’s gonna rejoin us, but we’ll have three additional guests from Emerson, and we’re gonna talk about moving and dispensing of hydrogen, so, I know you won’t wanna miss that. Listeners, as usual, if you enjoy listening to the “HydrogenNowCast” please consider subscribing to the podcast, and also give us a rating in your podcast app. A good rating helps us be discovered by other people. And of course, word-of-mouth recommendations are really important, so consider letting people in your own network know about the “HydrogenNowCast.” And lastly, I’d like to thank New Day Hydrogen for sponsoring the “HydrogenNowCast.” New Day Hydrogen’s working to build out and deploy hydrogen infrastructure to enable any of us to convert to zero-emission vehicles. So, if you’d like to contact me, I would always love to hear from you, and you can reach me through the website at colorado-hydrogen.org, or on LinkedIn. So, until next time, this is Brian DeBruine, wishing you health and prosperity. Goodbye.

-end of transcript-

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